A journal that focuses on Flash Platform development, and a little bit about what I am up to on any given day.

Monday, August 29, 2005

Fine, don't sell me a copy of Flex!

Over the last month I have started really getting into Flex. Of course I absolutely love using it, just like all the other Flex users out there will also testify to.

I have already built 2 pretty cool apps that are running on my local machine right now, and I have decided that I really want to bring Flex fully into our development and staging enviornment here in the office.

So, I start on the road to getting pricing information on the server. I start by going to the Macromedia site:

http://www.macromedia.com/software/flex/buy/

hmm, no pricing info here, so last week i decided I would fill out the form to have Macromedia contact me:

http://www.macromedia.com/cfusion/flex/index.cfm?event=lead

After doing so, haven't got a response yet.

Then I proceeded to take the initiative and call about it. I dialed the number, it took me to Macromedia Canada, and began reading me a list of sales associates. Press 1 for "Some guy", Press 2 for "Another guy", etc.

I have no idea who I want to talk to, I just want Flex pricing information for a company like ours, and hopefully purchase a copy of the software within the week. Pressing 0 just repeats the list again.

Anyways, I tried #1 and #2 and both were voice mail. I am not really interested in buying Macromedia's crazy expensive server at their convenience.

So if anyone out there involved in selling Flex wants a potential customer, give us a call here at Teknision.

I am a bit suprised that the process for purchasing the server is so loose. It worries me that there isn't really a price, it is whatever a sales guy can price it at.

If I can buy ColdFusion from the Macromedia store, why can I not do the same for Flex?

53 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

its just another round in the "why the whole Flex marketing model has been complete crap" scenario. As far as I am concerned, especially in light of Lazlo, they are trying to hold out and milk it for all its worth before its demise. Like generator. Of course there are some things about flex that make it very attractive from a development point of view, but damn...

10:41 AM

 
Blogger Tony said...

I do not agree with Flex having a demise in the near future. I think it is actually a very impressive product.

However, the sales scenario for it needs work. There is no doubt there.

Flex to me is more of a product than a solution, from my eyes at least, and I don't see there being any need to hide the price from the general public.

10:49 AM

 
Anonymous jdowdell said...

Flex isn't shrinkwrap software, where there's one price for a box. There are different types of licensing available, which is why pricing is handled by personal quotes, one-on-one.

jd/mm

10:53 AM

 
Blogger Tony said...

Ok, so why is this information hidden? It would technically be quite easy to list the different pricing options wouldn't it?

If Flex is not shinkwrapped software, then why is ColdFusion? I don't really understand why all of CF's options can be listed on the site, and Flex's cannot.

Anyways, I don't want this to be a moan and groan about price, because I know Flex isn't cheap. But, the process of getting pricing and buying the software, seems awkward, compared to all of the other purchases we have made from Macromedia over the years.

11:13 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hrmm, I did receive a response after a few emails to them. Unfortunately for my company, the price tag was still too high. From the web site it seemed like a small isv could buy into the software and pay a different price, but that wasn't the scenario I was given. Unless your a company that plans to buy upwards of 10 licenses you don't save a dime. Those that do plan on buying that many could save on volume discount. Anyways no one is allowed to quote this cause maybe the situation is different for someone else and the information I was given is not on any handouts.

11:18 AM

 
Blogger Tony said...

Again,

I am expecting what I have heard to be the Flex price. I know it isn't cheap, and I am not complaining there. Instead I am a bit frustrated by how a server that is as expensive as it is, is so difficult to get actual information on.

I just want the info so I can present it to my partners to evaluate whether or not we should adopt it internally.

12:11 PM

 
Blogger Tony said...

Stephane from Macromedia Canada got a hold of me and let me in on the details I was looking for.

It seems to me that it goes from Developer edition (free 5 IPs), to Enterprise(20k+) with nothing in between.

It is unfortunate that there is not really a solution for a company like ours that could do amazing things with Flex, and showcase some really great work.

We wouldn't even be able to justify buying a licence for internal development which is unfortunately more than 5 IPs. We could all run our own development version, but that would kind of defeat the purpose using it anyways.

Most of the Flex content we are working on now is nothing more than R&D and sample apps.

We do not apply for non-commercial because we are a revenue bearing organization. That confuses me, because a Java developer using Flex on his blog is using Flex for commercial gain indirectly. "Pay me to develop you a Flex app like this!". What is the difference between 1 person, and a development shop like us doing the same thing?

The truth is though, we would use it to build internal applications that we would use. How could we not? One of my samples already built is a Flex UI for our time tracking system.

I wish there was one other pricing model designed for companies like ours. One that allows us to use Flex comfortably internally, with the goal of developing applications for others.

1:23 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

btw, how much does the developer edition run?

1:35 PM

 
Blogger Tony said...

It is free.

1:43 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tony,
I totally agree with you on this - Macromedia's marketing of Flex is (as far as I can see) a solution that makes it easier to develop RIAs (Rich Internet-based Applications), thus competing with not only companys' existing web applications (be it .Net, CF PHP or whatever else) but also the "normal" applications such as database front ends, groupware and so on. If Macromedia really want Flex/Flash to be a player here, they need to do a much better job of exposing both the "business/strategy" value of the software and the "developer/IT" aspect of it. Complex or hidden pricing schemes tend to scare potential buyers away from a product, instead of the opposite.

Actually, this case reminds me of a couple of years back, when VMWare (the company who make computer virtualization products) had their enterprise product (ESX Server) only available for ISVs and very special enterprise customers - they priced it up in the sky becuase they didn't see a market for it anywhere else. Today, customers of all sizes are running ESX Servers to minimize the number of physical boxes and even though the prize of the product has been cut (to about 1/3rd of its original price I've heard) they are more than making up for it in revenues - it has simply become a huge success.

Best regards,
Trond Hindenes
Norway

3:01 PM

 
Anonymous Mike Chambers said...

>It is unfortunate that there is not really a solution for a company like ours that could do amazing things with Flex, and showcase some really great work.

fyi, we are working on this:

http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mesh/archives/2005/08/will_zorn_requi.cfm#more

mike chambers

mesh@macromedia.com

3:05 PM

 
Anonymous barry.b said...

we had similar grief a year ago when flex was first released. our team lead knew flex and how it would have been perfect for the school admin software we were starting to write.

but the lack of getting a sympathetic ear and an understanding we had 150+ clients/sites (that's 150+ licences!) meant it wouldn't fly. by the time an oem pricing was starting to get to a negoitable stage (XMAS last year) the horse had bolted.

we're having the same grief with MACR not understanding our market for CF7 licences. we *need* enterprise licences. Even with volume sales, the price is still too prohibitive. Schools just can't afford it.

I honestly think MACR don't understand ISV's writing turnkey solutions when it comes to server licences. Lip service but no action. it seems all too skewed towards small licence numbers (intranets, web hosting, etc) and NOT the volume sales that we have.

meanwhile the app only uses cf7 std features and we're breaking our back writing it in dhtml. bye bye 150+ cf7 ent + flex licences...

... it could have been soooo nice....

my 2c

5:36 AM

 
Blogger Tony said...

Hey Mike,

I had read that post about Zorn, and it is certainly a great thing that the average developer or development team can embrace the technology without the massive price tag.

Personally though, I still think there should be a Flex license that is designed for smaller development teams or small business, while we wait for Zorn.

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Apple 4 GB ipod mini silver m9160ll/a=us$43.00
Apple 60 GB ipod photo m9830ll/a =us$82.00
Apple 60 GB ipod photo =us$49.00
Apple 30 GB ipod photo m9829ll/a =us$73.00
NEXTEL 1930 JUST FOR...$120USD
NEXTEL i870at JUST FOR ..$140usd
NEXTEL i450 JUST FOR ..90usd
NEXTEL 1860 JUST FOR ..$110USD
SAMSUNG SCH i830 JUST FOR ...$220USD
SAMSUNG MM-1940 JUST FOR ..$190USD
SAMSUNG SGH D307JUST FOR..$180USD
SAMSUNG SGH D720 JUST FOR ...$170USD
SAMSUNG D500 JUST FOR ..$160USD
MOTOROLA V3 RAZ JUST FOR..$160USD BLACK COLOR,
MPX 300 JUST FOR .$180USD
SIDEKICK 2 JUST FOR ..$120USD
SONYERICSSON P990 JUST FOR ...$210USD
SONYERICSSON W900 JUST ...$190USD
SONYERICSSON Z500a JUST FOR .$180usd
SONYERICSSON Z520 JUST FOR .$190USD
SONYERICSSON P910 JUST FOR..$160USD
SONYERICSSON P800 JUST FOR.$130USD
SONYERICSSON K750i JUST FOR .$150USD
SONYERICCSON W800I JUST FOR ....$160
MOTOROLA V3 BLACK JUST FOR $160,PINK $200,BLUE $270
NOKIA 9500 COMMUNICATOR JUST FOR ..$220USD
NOKIA 9300 COMMUNICATOR JUST FOR ..$210USD
NOKIA 7360 JUST FOR ..$170USD
NOKIA 7370 JUST FOR ..$180USD
NOKIA 770 JUST FOR .$160USD
NOKIA 6682 JUST FOR $150USD
NOKIA 7380 JUST FOR$200USD
NOKIA 8800 JUST FOR $220USD
NOKIA N90 JUST FOR $200USD
NOKIA N91 JUST FOR $250USD
NOKIA N92 JUST FOR...$220USD
NOKIA N80 JUST FOR $250USD
NOKIA N71 JUST FOR ...$200USD
NOKIA N70 JUST FOR ...$180USD
NOKIA E60 JUST FOR A $160USD
NOKIA E61 FOR At ..$180USD.
All our product are nagotiable
SONY VAIO A217S-- 100GB-- 512MB RAM-- XP HOME-$500
SONY VAIO B1VP-- 40GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP PRO--$430
SONY VAIO T370P/L-- 60GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP--$400
SONY VAIO A215Z 60GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP--$6450
SONY VAIO A397XP-- 80GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP--$700
SONY VAIO B100B08 60GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP--$450
SONY VAIO B100B08 60GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP--$600
SONY VAIO FS295VP 80GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP--$550
SONY VAIO FS215Z 100GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP---$650
SONY VAIO A417M 80GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP--$650
SONY VAIO B1VP-- 40GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP PRO--$300
SONY VAIO T370P/L-- 60GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP PRO--$600
SONY VAIO LAPTOP-- VGN-A117S--$600
SONY VAIO LAPTOP-- VGN-S1XP--$800
ALPHASMART DANA PALM POWERED LAPTOP---$330
APPLE G4 POWERBOOK 1.5GHZ SUPERDRIVE WITH 15 INCH DISPLAY--$700
APPLE G5 POWERMAC 2.0GHZ DESKTOP COMPUTER--$700
APPLE G4 POWERBOOK 1.5GHZ SUPERDRIVE WITH 17 INCH DISPLAY--$600
APPLE G5 POWERMAC 2.5GHZ DESKTOP COMPUTER---$100
TOSHIBA SATELLITE LAPTOP-- P20-102----$500
APPLE 5GHZ SUPERDRIVE DESKTOP COMPUTER WITH 20 INCH MONITOR-$4500
TOSHIBA SATELLITE LAPTOP-- P10-803---$500
ALPHASMART DANA PALM POWERED LAPTOP-$350
ALPHASMART DANA PALM POWERED LAPTOP PACK WIFI VERSION-$400
OQO MODEL 01 ULTRA PERSONAL COMPUTER (XP PRO)---$450
TOSHIBA SATELLITE PRO A60 40GB-- C2.8GHZ-- 15INCH-- DVD/CDR$450
FLYBOOK NOTEBOOK - WI-FI-- GPRS-- BLUETOOTH-- 1GHZ (BLACK)----$550
FUJITSU SIEMENS LIFEBOOK P7010 60GB-- P4 1.1GHZ-- 10.6INCH-- DVD/CDRW
$600
ASUS A4744K-LH AMD64 POWER WORKSTATION LAPTOP---$450
FLYBOOK NOTEBOOK - WI-FI-- GPRS-- BLUETOOTH-- 1GHZ (RED)---$610
FLYBOOK NOTEBOOK - WI-FI-- GPRS-- BLUETOOTH-- 1GHZ (BLUE)---$500
ALPHASMART DANA PALM POWERED LAPTOP---$300
FLYBOOK NOTEBOOK - WI-FI-- GPRS-- BLUETOOTH-- 1GHZ (YELLOW)--$500
TOSHIBA TECRA M2 40GB-- PM 1.5GHZ-- 14INCH-- WIFI-- DVD-CDRW----$500
FLYBOOK NOTEBOOK - WI-FI-- GPRS-- BLUETOOTH-- 1GHZ (SILVER)---$500
TOSHIBA PORTEGE R100 40GB-- 512MB-- XP PRO---$500
TOSHIBA SATELLITE LAPTOP-- M30-742---$550
APPLE G5 POWERMAC 1.8GHZ DESKTOP COMPUTER--$500
HP PAVILION LAPTOP-- ZD7145EA--$500
HP PAVILION LAPTOP-- ZD7255EA--$500
APPLE CINEMA HD 23-INCH TFT LCD MONITOR--$500
SONY VAIO LAPTOP-- VGN PCGK21 5Z--$500
SAMSUNG LAPTOP-- X30 LWC 1500--$500
G4 POWERBOOK 1.33GHZ SUPERDRIVE WITH 12 INCH DISPLAY-$600
SONY VAIO PCVW2 DESKTOP--$450
HP PAVILION LAPTOP-- ZX5151EA PHOTOSMART--$400
TOSHIBA SATELLITE LAPTOP-- M30-832--$400
HP PAVILION LAPTOP-- ZT3215EA--$550
SAMSUNG LAPTOP-- M40 HWM 745--$500
APPLE G4 POWERBOOK 1.3GHZ COMBO WITH 15 INCH DISPLAY-$700
All our product are nagotiable
All this documents will enable you to clear the consignment from the career on deliver. The phone is treeband and it work with T-mobile, Vodafone Sim and other sim card or any net work service.
Your urgent response to this request will be highly appreciated.
Regards,
Sales/Manger.

7:14 AM

 
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10:38 PM

 

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